What to do when pulled over?

[C. Coburn]

As a CHP holder, what should I do when pulled over by police? :confused:

[Frank Wilson]

I got this is from our friends at Virginia Civil Defense League:

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2. Three Fairfax County police officers prove the Keystone Kops are alive and well
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We haven't had any issues with the Fairfax County police in quite a while now. I have found them to be one of the best run police agencies in Virginia.

However, three officers tarnished that image last week when they unlawfully arrested a North Carolina resident who was legally carrying a handgun and had a North Carolina CHP.

Hold on tight - this is a weird story.

The gun owner was pulled over for running through a red light, a charge which the gun owner disputes.

The gun owner, believing that he had to disclose he was lawfully armed as they do in North Carolina, dutifully told the officer he had a NC CHP and was indeed armed.

The officer seemed to ignore the statement, but very shortly two more patrol units pulled up. The next thing the gun owner knew he is in a "felony stop" mode. He was asked to walk backwards towards the officers, who then disarmed and handcuffed him.

While trying to unloaded his gun, THEY DROPPED IT ONTO THE ROAD!

The two officers and a SERGEANT then proceeded to tell him that he was under arrested for:

1. Having hollow point bullets, which they claimed were illegal in Virginia (!)
2. Taking a loaded gun across the state line, which the gun owner was told was a FELONY (!)
3. Having a concealed gun that the police said he couldn't have since he was from North Carolina (!!)

His car and gun were impounded and he was taken off to a magistrate.

The magistrate looked at the charges and told the police officers that they had just made a false arrest.

The officers pointed out the possession of hollow point bullets. The magistrate asked, "are they teflon coated?"

"No," replied on of the officers.

"Then they are legal."

Trying to find something that would stick and justify the false arrest, one of the officers said, "We couldn't verify that his North Carolina permit is valid."

The magistrate looked at the permit, noticed the phone number on the back where one can call to verify the permit, called the number, and within a few minutes found out the permit was indeed valid.

The gun owner was ordered to be released.

After being released from custody, the gun owner was given a hard time by another officer about getting his gun back, but he did finally get it back.

If all of that isn't bad enough, the arresting officer went ahead and gave the gun owner a ticket for the alleged offense of running a red light!

In essence, with that brilliant move, the officer was practically BEGGING the gun owner to PLEASE sue Fairfax Count for the false arrest!

I have already talked to my high-level contact with the Fairfax County PD about this entire situation and the gun owner has filed a formal complaint.

In the past, Fairfax County PD has been very good when such internal investigations are required. Now we will wait and see what happens.

What is clear is that Fairfax County PD needs to educate its officers on:

1. Possession of hollow point bullets
2. Reciprocity laws
3. Lawful carriage of firearms across state lines
4. Safe gun handling (a few years ago unsafe gun handling by an officer cause a gun to discharge, killing an unarmed, handcuffed man)

[A. L. Shear]

As a CHP holder, what should I do when pulled over by police? :confused:

To answer your question sir. When we stop you for a traffic/vehicular infraction we will call in the traffic stop, location and your license plate. We will then exit our cruiser and approach Introduce myself, ask for your DL and Reg. and tell you why I stopped you. Then I will return to my cruiser to run your info and my dispatcher will inform me at that point that you are a CHP holder along with the other info.

So, you see, if you have not handed me your CHP card with your license I will not not know until I am sitting in my cruiser wondering "WHAT IS THIS PERSON HIDING FROM ME? WHY DIDN'T THEY WANT TO TELL ME THEY HAD A CHP? DID THE HAVE ONE AND IT WAS REVOKED AND NOT IN THE SYSTEM YET? " We as cops are generally suspicous if you give us something to be suspicious about.

When your stopped, when the officer asks for your DL/Reg., give him your CHP. Keep both hands on the wheel. Oh, and when your stopped, and the officers behind you getting ready to call it in, thats not the time to go fumbling around for the DL/Reg. We think your either trying to hide something or grab something. KEEP HANDS ON THE WHEEL AND WAIT. Tell us where the papers are and your getting them after your tell us you have a CHP and where the gun is. All I will ask id if the CHP is current and ask for the permit.

The above story is a sad one for sure. But remember, there are over 100k of us and those idiots make up a small(thankfully) percentage. I know you've had to go through a background check, training and practice more than most cop do.

Also, while I pontificating, remember, we do the thankless job no one else wants to do aor can't. If we're lucky we see crime before it happens, during the crime, but the majority of the time its cleaning up the mess after the crime has been committed. Seeing the accidents, the murders, the rapes, the beaten children, women, the home invasions etc..... and the we get to go home, every day to our families with a smile on our face and pretend we didn't see a thing. So if you have little problem your G-D given 2nd amend. right to carry a handgun(which I have no problem with) being infringed upon if I stop you and become a little cautious, it is because I want to go home after my shift, smiling:)

[Michael Thompson]

Also, while I pontificating, remember, we do the thankless job no one else wants to do aor can't. If we're lucky we see crime before it happens, during the crime, but the majority of the time its cleaning up the mess after the crime has been committed. Seeing the accidents, the murders, the rapes, the beaten children, women, the home invasions etc..... and the we get to go home, every day to our families with a smile on our face and pretend we didn't see a thing. So if you have little problem your G-D given 2nd amend. right to carry a handgun(which I have no problem with) being infringed upon if I stop you and become a little cautious, it is because I want to go home after my shift, smiling:)

Al , I appreciate your service and no offense intended, but you chose law enforcement as a profession. No one made you do it. I certainly do have a problem with anyone, including and especially cops, infringing on my God given rights.

[Mike Wood]

With all due respect Al, and I really do mean that. I personally do not offer any more information than is necessary to a police officer any more. I was stopped years ago on I-64 for speeding and when I told the VA State Police officer I was armed and had a CCW permit he made me get out of the car in front of all my co-workers coming to work (he stopped me after I exited onto Northampton Blvd.) had me sprawled across the hood searching me after disarming me. Kept me waiting for 20 or so minutes and then wrote me for wreckless to boot. Why was all that necessary?

I was also handcuffed & detained in the back of a cruiser one night by a VB "Policeman" who stopped and searched me only because I had stopped on my walk back from the store to look at this MC trailer chained to a pole, same thing, turned it into a felony stop, (I guess he thought I would chew through the chain & drag this thing home) 3 more cruisers pulled up and fortunately when the idiot tried to tell me my permit was only good in Norfolk an older more experienced cop interviened and they let me go, with no apology whatsoever- f**k them. I should have sued. Next time, rest assured, I will. I have experienced far too much police incompetence in my area alone to think it's only a small percentage.

I know many of you guys that are police officers think after reading this that I'm anti-cop. Nothing could be further from the truth! It's an underpaid risky job that is desperately needed and I for one am glad that you guys a willing to put up with the BS day after day. Many of my shooting buddy's and some of my closest freinds are cops. They know where I'm coming from. I do not have a problem with cops at all. I have a BIG problem with incompetence and arrogance. I have the same problem with incompetant & arrogant civilians, the only difference is they don't have the power to put me over the hood of my f**king car, disarm me and embarrass me without me kicking their stupid ass.:mad:
MW

[A. L. Shear]

Well, I was going to attempt a post to answer both of you but its going south fast. I am going to say in a parting answer that the attitude I get from CHP holder right from the start of an encounter is the attitude you guys are showing here. I may stop you, but because you had the bad experience a year before, you now take it out on the rest of us. Right from the get-go.

Have either of you tried going to the departments respectively and offering to educate some Sgts or Lts? Maybe dropping off some Va. laws? Have VCDL help you? Contact the Comm.Attorneys office and ask to have them send someone over to talk to the depts.? We cover this stuff with our officers in legal updates in-service training.

Ok, I'm done,
I hope mr Coburn got some of the info he asked for in his original post.
Everyone be safe,
Al

[Joe Ford]

Gee guy I sorta expect a "LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER" to already be educated on the laws they're enforcing. So did you drop a Chiltons or Haynes manual off at your mechanic before you got your brakes done? No ? Oh you sorta expected him to know what he was doing. The good cops really need to do a better job of policing their own ranks. There are too many dweebs with inferiority complexes in LE for me to believe it is "just a few bad apples" When stopped which I have only been a few times in my life I'll be polite but I'm not providing any extra information, it's none of your business where I am going, where I am coming from, what I was doing etc etc.

[Mike Wood]

Have either of you tried going to the departments respectively and offering to educate some Sgts or Lts? Maybe dropping off some Va. laws? Have VCDL help you? Contact the Comm.Attorneys office and ask to have them send someone over to talk to the depts.? We cover this stuff with our officers in legal updates in-service training.
Al

Al, since I was on my lunch break when the VB cop harrassed me my boss took the liberty of contacting the 1st precinct where this officer worked. I never contacted the State Police, this was back in the late 80's and I was younger and much more tolerant than I am now. I do have to say I totally agree with Joe Ford's post with him practically taking the words right out of my mouth.

If I were to take up the job as a LEO I would make it a point to educate myself on the laws that I'm paid to enforce. Not only to prevent me from jacking up some innocent civvy, but also to protect myself from litigation and also so I don't look like a shmuck in court. Why would I be out there arresting, detaining, writing tickets and not even knowing if I had a legal reason to do so?:confused:

My son is thinking of joining a police dept. so I'm aware of the difficult process in getting into the job, what seems to be lacking is the follow up. I know part of the problem is the laws seem to change on an almost bi-monthly basis, but never the less, these officers NEED to know the laws to be a good law enforcement officer.

I know I sound bitter (because I am) but I do not take it out on any cop, you just kind of opened a can of worms and I apologize if it seems like I was venting on you. I know you were just trying to help the guy. An issue with a lot of officers is they have to take out so much trash that they get jaded and after awhile get an us and them outlook that makes them tighter with fellow cops & more distanced from the citizens they're sworn to protect. That is probably what made you say things like your comment about the 2nd amendment.

We civilians take all our rights just as seriously as you do you God given right to go home at the end of your shift. I am so aware that I'm the only one that is going to prevent my not being able to go home because some scumbag (like the perps & some victims that you deal with everyday in your job) might try and take my life. You said it yourself, you guys almost always get there after the crime is over.

I will be protecting myself and my family regardless of what some over-educated common sense challenged pencil-pushing burecrat decides in the Republic of Washington. Having said all that I also need to say that I for one hope that you and all the guys & gals you work with will always be able to go home at the end of your shifts.:)
MW

[A. L. Shear]

Mike,
I was not going to come back to this post(or forum for that matter) until your post. Your eloquent persuasiveness is a tribute to your patience and civility. Something we all can learn from.

Once an un-informed officer has begun his ill advised behavior, its too late to close the barn door and wish he was educated in the laws of the Commonwealth. Unfortunately, he, and others screw up because of the evil "GUN" word on the radio. The sitiuation happened, now, what can you do to make sure it doesn't happen again to you or someone else. Rant that it should not ever have happened in the first place(like telling me that), or moving to action.

We are human, I would say half of the cops I know know MOST of the firearm laws out there. Out of the thousands of laws, misdem/felonies/traffic inf. we try to keep straight. Then that evil gun word comes out and some cops just go into survival mode. Their brains de-evolve, losing all logic and reason. Gun equates to bad guy. Simple!! That must be it. We older guys know you are firearm guys, passed a background check, were fingerprinted, took a course and practice more than we do or qualify. Heck, I want to know what your carrying and why you made that choice. Thats me and my story.

Is there a solution, sure. You both have said it. Education of ALL cops. But until someone, somewhere makes sure all cops are told of all the new federal,state, city, county ordinances all the time its a crap shoot. We are supposed to be in legal updates. But guess what, sometimes it does not happen. Thousands of codified laws, new ones, new case laws every year.

I am done here. We all can move on. Help the situation or not. I do. I try to educate as many officers as possible that I come in contact with.

Good luck to all of you. D.R., its been fun but I can't see myself here.
Paul, Brad, Rick its been fun talking to you guys.

Stay safe out there.
Al

[Mike Wood]

Al,
Talk about eloquence...thank you for that compliment. But I feel bad and responsible, I hope you're only talking about leaving this thread. You have been a regular, educational & positive addition to this forum for some time; please don't leave the forum on account of my bitter rant. We could all benefit from your views. And you do belong here. :o
Mike