An interview with D.R. Middlebrooks Q: What made you decide to come up with a new method of handgun shooting? A: "Necessity. I suffered with tendonitis and joint pain for years. When I drew the gun it hurt, and when I fired the gun it hurt. I could no longer grip the gun hard enough to control recoil. My eyes were also changing and it was becoming extremely difficult for me to focus on the sights. Traditional shooting methods were failing me. I needed a better way to shoot a handgun." Q: What makes your method so different? A: "First off, the strong hand grip is different; the weak hand wrist lock is different; the methodology of indexing is different; the presentations are ALL different; the foot stance is different and the reloading techniques are all quite different… Second, its foundation is based upon the ‘three levels” of weapons presentation’, which are actually three different shooting positions. By this, I mean the actual presenting and pointing of the weapon at the target or threat… Thirdly, these three presentations are totally different (actually quite the opposite) from the conventional Weaver, Chapman and Cooper styles, as well as the popular Modified Isosceles stance… Lastly, my system is designed to readily integrate with modern Mixed Martial Arts fighting techniques." Q: How did you develop the system? A: "My concept of the ultimate handgun shooting system was simple and universal: It must be both fast and accurate; It must work equally well for a 80 lb. woman or a 300 lb. man; All movements must be fluid and natural; It had to be capable of evolving and adaptable to the ever changing weapons technology and it had to integrate easily with modern Mixed Martial Arts fighting techniques… I determined that all aspects of current tactical and competition shooting methods would be re-examined, taking nothing for granted and accepting nothing as gospel. Point Shooting would also be incorporated into the system and weapons retention would be paramount… To ensure balance, I employed the fundamental doctrines of the Tactical Shooting Academy. Our motto was simple: “If it works, use it”. So, before any shooting technique would be accepted it had to work in ‘Force on Force’ and then be proven in World Class Shooting Competition… What resulted in my 25 years of research was an entirely new style of shooting called ‘FIST-FIRE’. This system of shooting is not "jaded by tradition" or "blinded by old school doctrine". You’ll find no subjective dogma here, just pure, unadulterated, defensive speed shooting techniques. We have proven by empirical data, that this new system works well, under all conditions, all the time." Q: But why create new shooting stances, especially if the traditional ones work? A: "Because traditional methods ONLY work at full extension. Statistically speaking, you will probably never reach full extension in a street fight. Further, both the Weaver and Modern Isosceles stances require a good bit of grip strength to make them work. You really have to muscle the gun to control muzzle climb for fast follow up shots.” Q: Why three stances? A: "Because there are basically three types of shooting positions needed in self-defense situations, all based upon distance to the threat… If someone is in your face, for example, you’re helpless with the other stances because you cannot get the weapon out to full extension. So with Fist-Fire we break the presentations down to three basic segments or ‘three primary levels’ of weapons presentation. Each level is a stance within itself, and each one is the natural progression of the other." Q: How you know which stance to use when? A: "Distance determines how far out you extend the weapon. The farther away the threat is, the farther you extend the weapon. As you extend the gun out you will go from one level of presentation right into the other. You can even go back and fourth from one to the other. It’s all very natural movements with all fluid motions. It’s a beautiful thing to see, it’s the total perfection of technique." Q: Which shooting stance do you teach first? A: "The ‘Guard’ shooting position is taught first. This is where you learn how to protect the gun from disarms while learning to index the gun on the threat and shoot from retention (both one and two handed). This shooting stance is very effective, especially when your opponent is at or near contact distance... Next, the ‘Partial Extension’ position is taught where you learn to point shoot from the ‘Reverse Weaver’ (with the weak arm higher and straighter than the strong arm). You can also raise the gun up a little higher and look at or through the sights if you wish… Lastly, the ‘Surgical Shooting’ position is taught where you learn how to use the sights and control the trigger with the gun out at full extension of the ‘Reverse Chapman’ stance. Here, the weak arm elbow is gently locked straight for tighter shots at longer ranges (beyond 10 yards). Once you master these three basic presentations, you’ll find there is actually an infinite number of shooting positions with no limitations on when you shoot or how far you extend. You effectively fire anywhere from the Guard all the way out to Full extension and back." Q: What about foot position? A: "Foot position really doesn’t matter because the presentations all work from the waist up. You can be standing, walking or moving, left or right foot leading, it doesn’t matter. You don’t even need legs with this system, that’s why it works so well for handicapped shooters and those in wheelchairs. But we prefer to have the feet ‘squared up’ with threat whenever possible." Q: Why not use the conventional ‘Boxer’ fighting stance? A: "The natural reaction for humans when in danger is to turn and squarely face the threat. This is a totally natural and instinctive action. For this reason, Fist-Fire is designed to allow you to square off with your opponent and not expose the sides of your body to the threat (which is your most vulnerable part when wearing a bullet proof vest)… By starting with both feet square to the firing line or your opponent, you are not committed or limited to what you can do. This gives you plenty of movement choices (all sides open) and affords many more options than does the conventional boxer stance. So, we recommend that you to start from a ‘neutral’ foot position, squared up, if at all possible." Q: How about the classic police ‘interview’ stance? A: "That’s the same as the boxer stance, and that’s O.K. if you want to kick or block with the weak side leg, but it leaves you with your gun exposed for a disarm from behind, and standing bladed leaves your bullet proof vest exposing the openings in the sides under the armpits… But why would you want to fight the body’s natural survival instincts? We believe it’s better to exploit the body’s natural instincts in order to make better use of them under stress. Squaring up with your opponent is the most natural way to go, you’ll see why in the Fist-Fire demonstrations." Q: Why do you say yours is a “One size fits all” method of shooting when people are all built differently? A: "I have tested this system on hundreds of students of all shapes and sizes. I know for a fact that this is the ONLY system that will work all the time, on any body. This is because the system and its movements are totally natural… For example, take me, my wife Barb and my youngest student Daniel Horner. We are all built VERY differently, yet we ALL have two things in common: We all use the FIST-FIRE method and we are all World Champion shooters.” Q: How did you test the system to see if it actually worked? A: "After the ‘Force on Force’ studies were completed, I chose some of the toughest shooting matches in the world in which to test the system… At the World Class level, I.D.P.A. tests Defensive Pistol Marksmanship skills and the World Shoot Off Championships is a pure test of Surgical Speed Shooting technique. Starting at the late age of 45, I won several major matches including National and World titles in both of these venues against some of the best Pro Shooters in the world. This was the ‘acid test’ for the FIST-FIRE System. The fact that the system was truly designed for handgun fighting yet it still works extremely well in major match competition, proves its versatility.” Q: Some experts will argue, "Competition ain’t combat" and “It ain’t real unless it’s real”. What do you say to that? A: "Why would you want to wait until it "gets real" to find out what works and what doesn’t? You can screw up in a match, and still go home afterwards (as opposed to the hospital or morgue). I would much rather find out at the match what my weak points are in my technique and in my equipment, as opposed to finding out later that it doesn’t work on the street." Q: So why do they say that match habits will get you killed in a gunfight? A: "I agree that some matches can ingrain bad habits that could get you killed in a gunfight. Things like standing in the fatal funnel and shooting, standing in an open window and shooting, shooting without using cover, etc. So, you do need to be careful how you shoot, what you practice and how you train. But you can only get so good in practice and then you need to test yourself in an ‘Alive’ environment (as my friend Matt Thornton says)… What you do in practice is better than what you'll do in a match. What you do in the match is better than what you’ll do on the street. So, you need the pressure to test yourself. How you shoot in a match, under pressure when the clock is running is a fairly good indicator of what your actual shooting ability is. The timer adds pressure and coupled with the challenge of match competition and peer pressure, your heart rate will increase and the adrenaline will flow. If there is a problem with you and/or your equipment, you’ll find out in the match." Q: Is it true that you teach people not to look at their sights? A: "Not at first. First and foremost, I want them to learn to shoot from retention, thereby protecting the gun from a possible disarm… Next I want them to learn to point shoot from partial extension. Basically, we are teaching them how ‘Index and Point’ the weapon under stress. The reason for this is the vast majority of street gunfights and home evasions occur at or near contact distance, and usually in low light. So, there is a very good chance you will not be able to push the gun out to full extension or even see the sights… Once they understand how to mount the gun and achieve the index and point (driving the weapon by feel) I will then teach them how to surgically shoot using the sights at full extension. But this is only after they have demonstrated the ability to execute the basics of indexing and point shooting at close quarters.” Q: Isn’t that totally backwards from the traditional thinking? A: "Much of what I teach is totally the opposite of traditional thinking; I use a ‘Reverse’ Weaver Stance, a ‘Reverse’ Chapman Stance, a ‘Reverse’ Harries flashlight technique, a Reverse Draw Stroke, etc." Q: Most experts teach, “Front Sight, Press”. Isn’t that simpler? A: "Yes, but its not always practical. When under attack at extreme close quarters, there is literally no time to focus on the front sight, none, nada. Keep in mind that a ‘threat’ can change into a ‘non-threat’ in an instant, so you’ll need 100% target focus to identify your adversary. By watching the threat, you’ll also be able to see more of what’s going on down range. The more you see, the more you’ll know. This visual input will help make your shooting decisions (which are the most important decisions of your life) faster and easier to make. Q: So, are you saying you wouldn’t use your sights in a gunfight? A: "The FIST-FIRE Rule of Thumb is this: If you have the time, use the sights. But TIME IS A LUXURY we can’t always afford. Lethal confrontations are usually “time competitive” (as are combat shooting matches). On the street, you must be sure of your target (the threat) and what’s beyond (backstops and bystanders). This is all based upon a fundamental rule of safe shooting. Not only is sighted fire slower than index and point shooting, it teaches people to look at their front sight and NOT identify the target and what’s beyond it.” Q: But isn’t sighted fire more accurate? A: “At longer distances, yes, sighted fire is definitely more accurate. But at street combat distances (usually 7 yards and closer), the target is big and closing in on you. Index shooting and point shooting is much faster. Besides, it’s very hard to watch your front sight when shooting at reactionary targets under stress. For example: Top shooters have told me that they have difficulty focusing on their front sight when shooting falling steel plates. This is something they practice a lot, but it's still very hard to do under stress, as their focus tends to leave the front sight and go right to the target. I’ve heard them complain, “I never once saw my front sight on that run…” Now, if Top Shooters are having trouble focusing on the front sight in a match, how can you expect the average Joe to watch the front sight during a gun battle? And what happens if you are in the bi-focal stage of life and can't see the front sight? Or what happens if, in the course of an armed confrontation, your prescription tri-focal glasses are knocked off? What do you do then? Somebody answer that one for me." Q: But isn’t sight alignment & trigger control the keys to accuracy? A: "Target accuracy or combative accuracy? Anyone can hit a static target if given enough time to line up the sights and IF they press the trigger without flinching or jerking. But when someone is attacking you it’s a different story. Your adversary will most likely be moving towards you and require multiple shots to stop. If you punch the gun out to full extension you can get disarmed very easily. You could also have the gun deflected and the shot may not go where you want it to, thus endangering bystanders. The reality is that you may not actually get a chance to use the sights. What we need today is center of mass hits on demand and under stress in REAL TIME while moving. This requires a completely different focus, a completely different mindset and a completely different method of firearms training." Q: How long does it take to learn Fist-Fire? A: "Different people learn at different rates, so it all depends on the individual. It really all comes down to your ability to learn, your willingness to change and your dedication to train... But I believe that by meditating (concentrating) on the technique as you go through the motions, you will be programming it into your subconscious (muscle memory) at a much faster rate. It's much better than mindless shooting where you just send rounds down range without any conscious thought about what you are doing.” Q: They say you don’t practice very much, yet you shoot well cold. How do you do that? A: "Once the sword is made, all you have to do is keep it sharp. Once you learn FIST-FIRE you will need only minimal live fire practice to maintain the edge. It’s like riding a bicycle. For example: A while back I was forced to take a six-month layoff from shooting to heal the tendonitis in my arm. I went to the World Shoot Off stone cold. I had just got a new gun I had never used before (an EAA Witness) and put a set of Pro-Sights on it the day before I left. I used a Ky-Dex behind the hip holster and won the "Man vs. Man" Stock Gun World title. I did this, stone cold after a six-month layoff. How did I do it? I simply relied on the technique. I knew that if I executed the techniques properly the targets would have to fall, and they did." Q: It's hard to argue with that kind of success, so equipment really doesn't matter? A: "Oh, sure it does. By using a tactical, behind the hip holster I gave up a quarter second on the draw speed to the guys with the IPSC speed rigs. I also gave up at least that much on muzzle jump recovery without the added weight of a heavy barrel, long dust cover or heavy guide rod. But the Pro-Sights really did compliment my point shooting technique." Q: I thought you weren't a big advocate of watching the sights? A: "Again, it all depends on the distance. Statistically speaking, the average handgun fight takes place well within 7 yards, so the sights are not nearly as important as indexing and pointing at close range. But the farther you get away, the more important the sight become. The neat thing about Pro-Sights is that you can look right through the Deep-V rear blade see both the target and the fiber optic red dot." Q: Do you ever watch or concentrate on just your front sight? A: "For anything beyond 10 yards, I’ll try to focus harder on front sight. But at my age, the best I can get is a “Soft, Fuzzy Focus”. And for street combat and IDPA type matches, most of the shots will be made at close range, so I’m not totally focused on just the front sight. I just index and point shoot for the most part. I’m starting to shoot matches now with no sights just to see how far I can push the envelope of point shooting. Besides, the sights are about useless with my new prescription street glasses. I have to take them off to see the sights clearly." Q: A lot of people preach against Point Shooting, yet it's a main part of your curriculum, why? A: "For me, the sights are a “Second Witness” to what I’m doing. But for most people they are the “Only Witness” or the “Only Way” they will ever know if they are on target or not. But by using the Fist-Fire indexing system the sights will always be in alignment. Once you know how to index, point and drive the gun by feel, the muzzle will be always be covering the center of the mass, so you won't have to hunt for the sights or fight to get them aligned. If you need them (and have time to use them) they will be right there for you… Indexing and Point Shooting is easy and fun to do, if you know how to do it. It’s also faster and more reliable than sighted fire under stress at close quarters. Case in point: When the California Highway Patrol Border Division adopted Point Shooting into their training the hit ratio jumped up to over 90% in officer involved shootings (as compared to 54% for the rest of the CHP). My hat is off to training Officer Lou Chiodo for being one of the first to adopt an official Point Shooting program. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: “Anyone who fails to incorporate Point Shooting into their firearms training curriculum is doomed to be left behind in the dogma of the last century." Q: Is it true that you’ll have to expend 50 thousand rounds a year to become a good shooter? A: "No, that’s old school thinking. I’ve only fired 25,000 rounds a year twice in my entire 30 year shooting career. Ask anyone who knows me, they’ll tell you I hardly ever practice and that I don’t shoot all that much. During Fist-Fire classes, I’ll demo 50 rounds or so without sights and that’s about it. When it comes time to get ready for a big match, I just knock the rust off the sword and hone the edge with about 250-300 practice rounds a day.” Q: Other schools emphasize tactics more than shooting. Isn't that a better alternative? A: "We believe that our first choices should always be ‘Avoid, Disengage and Escape’ whenever possible. Shooting is always the last option form of self-defense… But with global terrorism on the rise, the dynamics of street survival have forever changed. It’s no longer as simple as just some punk who wants your wallet. It could be a terrorist who wants to take you and your loves ones with him to see Allah, and the time for employing evasion tactics or de-escalation techniques is over. The bottom line is you had better have some good handgun shooting techniques to fall back on." Q: So you don’t put much emphasis on tactics? A: "Tactics are subjective and not easily measured. So, our main focus here at the Academy is on Tactical & Defensive Speed Shooting techniques. These things are quite measurable, so we know what works and what doesn’t... We also won’t tell you when to shoot and when not to shoot, as that’s ultimately your personal responsibility. Besides, there are lots of guys out there who teach those things very well. Our job is to teach you what do after the decision to use lethal force has been made." Q: Some experts say no one person has all the answers, no matter what he or she may say...What do you say to that? A: "I’d say that’s a copout. If it’s a handgun-shooting problem, I have a firing solution. And the answer always comes in the form of technique. Without proper technique, you are just mechanically firing the gun, you’re just going through the motions, you are not really shooting, you are just making the gun go bang… When you truly know how to shoot a handgun, you control it, you dominate it, and you drive it. Your confidence should come from knowing that the techniques work combined with the understanding of how to execute them. But the Bottom Line is this: If you can’t index and point shoot (shoot without the aid of sights), you can’t shoot, period, end of story. It's just that simple." Q: Some call you a "Gamesman" and others say you are a "Martial Artist", which is it? A: "My dictionary defines Tactics as “any maneuvers used to gain advantage or success”. Ironically, when one uses strategy in a match he’s called a ‘Gamer’ but when one uses tactics on the street, he’s considered to be a ‘Martial Artist’. One is acceptable and one is not... I believe that whether it's for match or street, the practitioner's ability to shape and control the environment to his or her favor is what the proper use of ‘Tactics’ is all about. When it comes down to the evolution of shooting technique, I have learned more from the Gamesmen than I have from the so-called Martial Artists.” Q: How many kills have your students gotten on the street? A: "What kind of a question is that? I don’t measure my student’s by their KILLS, I measure them by their SKILLS. Shooting is always the last option form of self-defense… Besides, what does it prove if a street cop out shoots some punk who has never had any formal firearms training of any kind? NOTHING! That’s flawed logic and a poor system of measurement.” Q: Some experts say that unless you've "shot for blood" in a life-threatening situation you are not qualified to teach. What do you say to that? A: "That’s Bullshit...Hey, I survived a knife fight once with three Bikers, so does that qualify me to be a knife fighting expert? I think not! Besides, guys in the military and those in police work are the most likely people to be involved in an actual street shootout. They have to go into harms way, it’s their job. Civilians, on the other hand, should go out of their way to avoid it. Anyone who says you have to get into a gunfight in order to be qualified to teach is preaching to the gunfighter wannabe types.” Q: Well, some people would say that real life experience would benefit them in training... A: "Now you’re talking Apples and Oranges; Tactics as opposed to Techniques. As a civilian, if you get into a gunfight on the street it’s because your primary tactics (avoidance, disengaging & escaping) have all failed… Personally, I think Tactics and Techniques are both equally important. But many instructors downplay the importance of proper shooting techniques and preach tactics instead. That’s because they have no real technique to offer. Just remember that Tactics and techniques are two entirely different things, you need to keep that in perspective." Q: Aren’t you concerned that others will copy your system and steal your techniques? A: "I was at first, but now I’ve realized that if they copy my techniques, so what? They still don’t really understand them. The farther down stream you get from the spring, the more polluted the water gets. People who really want to know the truth will come back to the source." Q: Some tactical trainers say you are teaching nothing new. What do you say to that? A: “I say they’re lying…I’ve been shooting World Class combat pistol matches since the mid 1970’s and I have NEVER seen anyone teach or preach ANYTHING close to FIST-FIRE… Let them say what they want. I’m the first guy with these new techniques in print, which should speak volumes. What do they have in print? Go back and look at what they’ve written over the years. You won’t find anything close to Fist-Fire. I took a lot of crap from the tactical guys on the Internet back in ’98 about point shooting. But look at them now; they’re all back peddling on the issue. Heck, they’ve even redefined what ‘point shooting’ is for crying out loud. Now they say “If you can see your handgun in any way, shape or form, then it’s not point shooting”. What a joke!” Q: Some of your critics say that your way of shooting is not the best, what do you say to that? A: "I say all they have to do is prove me wrong. But I find that guys who talk like that won’t ever back up what they say because they can’t shoot. They hide behind tactical excuses in order to justify their poor shooting habits and severe lack of technique. I see this all the time on the Internet. Do you know the difference between a Typist and a Shootist? Its something called performance.” Q: Sounds like you don’t have much respect other firearms instructors? A: "Some I do, some I don’t. Most are bogged down in the old school tactical dogma of the last century. They typically loathe the better shooters because they themselves can’t shoot. Yet they think they can teach others how to shoot. Why should I respect that?" Q: Some people say you are too cocky to be an instructor...What do you say to that? A: "I believe my system of shooting is the best. When I tell the gunfighter gurus and tactical wannabes that, they say I’m egotistical. When I challenge them to prove me wrong, they say I’m arrogant. I can’t help the way they feel. If it offends them, so what? We have a standing challenge here at the Tactical Shooting Academy: If anyone can show us a better way to shoot, we will adopt the technique, teach it and give them the credit for it. But before that happens you’ll have to put your gun on and show us, not just tell us. This means that you’ll have to actually know how to shoot and be able to back up your mouth. Just come to one of our ranges (or any range where we are shooting) and prove that your way is better. Shooting techniques are quite measurable, that’s why they have scoring rings on the targets and electronic timers. We also have access to simunitions, too, if anyone wants to do some force on force, let me know. Seriously, I’m not afraid to have my techniques tested. Challenges to the FIST-FIRE way of shooting are always welcome, it’s the only way to keep the system pure." Q: Who do you think is the best handgun shooter in the world? A: "Rob Leatham is arguably the best combat auto shooter of all time. He's a natural born shooter, built for shooting." Q: Well what about Leatham’s technique? If he’s the best, doesn’t that reflect on his technique? A: "No, not really, because he’s a natural. You cannot teach "Natural Ability" nor can you impart it or transfer it to others." Q: What about your technique? Why should you be any different? A: "I’ve been around competitive shooting as long as Leatham, and I was still just your average "A Class" IPSC shooter before Fist-Fire. Now I’m winning major matches for the first time in my life...Why? I don’t consider myself a natural. Neither is Daniel Horner, Rick Simes or my wife Barb (IMO). There are lots of shooters out there who are faster than we are. We all have to rely on proper execution of technique to win, that’s how we do it.” Q: What kind of shooter are you? How would you describe yourself? A: "I’m a very technical shooter. Some top shooters are philosophical shooters, some are theoretical shooters, still others are very physical in their approach to shooting, and some are just naturals. But I am very, VERY technical. I have to be, it’s the only way I can keep up with the big boys." Q: But not everybody can become a good shooter, can they? A: "There are SHOOTERS, there are GOOD SHOOTERS and there are GREAT SHOOTERS. I think anyone can become a good shooter with the FIST-FIRE techniques. Shooting is far less difficult than golf or any other sport or martial art for that matter. You just have to want to learn it, and it will take some dedication and hard work to become good at it… But shooting is not supposed to be hard. If you are struggling to clean a rack or hit a target, you are simply not executing the correct technique. Shooting is actually very easy, IF you have the right technique." Q: Why do your students and instructors have different color shields on the hats? A: "The FIST-FIRE Pyramid has six levels of teachings. The colors represent the student’s ability to execute the various techniques. When a student demonstrates proficiency in Level 1, he will receive a Blue shield for that level. Once he masters that level, he will move up to the next level and receive another shield color. This gives the students something to strive towards. Rewarding them with shield colors gives them a sense of self-accomplishment. It also lets everyone else know what level the shooter is when they judge my shooting style.” Q: So, how long does it take to earn a shield color? A: "Any Martial Arts instructor will tell you they cannot make you a ‘Black Belt’ in one day. Different people learn at different paces. Like any Martial Art, it all depends on your willingness to learn and your dedication to train.” Q: Why do you carry a gun? A: "Because I’ve been the victim. It's a very helpless feeling being unarmed when people are trying to kill you, the worst feeling I have ever experienced. I don't ever want to feel that way again." Q: Do you believe people who carry guns are living in fear? A: "If we are armed and well trained, what is there to fear? Besides, I still believe that good will triumph over evil, as long as we have the tools to fight with." Q: Some police departments say they can't justify the expense or time it takes for professional firearms training like yours. What do you say? A: "Advanced firearms training like FIST-FIRE doesn't cost, it pays. Yes, it does take some investment in time and money to attend our courses, and then you have to ‘train it to ingrain it’. But it will pay big dividends down the road on "life assurance" policies, as well as reducing the liability risks. Bullets never miss they always hit something. And every shot fired must strike the intended target... But by routinely performing our dry fire drills, the students will be able to self-coach during the ‘live fire’ sessions. This will keep ammo costs, range time and supervised instruction down, which will more than compensate for class tuition's, now and for years to come.”