Best AR-15 Optics

[Fast Eddy]

What's the best personal defense optic for the AR-15 platform? :confused:

[GutShot John]

For defensive purposes an RDS like Aimpoint or Eotech are your best general purpose options.

I'd look at the T1, H1 or M4S in Aimpoint and the XPS in Eotech first.

[Fast Eddy]

What about batteries? Wouldn't it be nice if the optic used the same batteries as the flashlight?? :confused:

[D. Middleton]

What about accuracy with a red dot? The old aimpoints I played with years ago had large dots and weren't that accurate at 100 yards, let alone 300. :(

[GutShot John]

What about accuracy with a red dot? The old aimpoints I played with years ago had large dots and weren't that accurate at 100 yards, let alone 300. :(

I don't know how big you mean. Modern Aimpoints are either 2 or 4 MOA. At 4 MOA you should be able to make headshots out to 100 yards quite easily. Use the top of the dot but a good carbine class might help too.

You can certainly shoot a red dot to 300 yards and beyond you just have no know your holds. At a DMR class my spotter/partner, not even a highly skilled shooter, was making hits on torso-sized (18x24") steel at 600 yards with an EOTech. It took him 3-4 shots to get on target but he was capable of doing it with some fundamental technique.

As for batteries being the same, I think that's something of a valid point but given the battery life of the Aimpoints (8 years so I just always leave mine on) I don't think it's entirely necessary. Basically you have a battery that lasts as long as a tritium vial and doesn't require an NRC rating or a hundred bucks to replace.

The Eotech XPS uses the same battery as most tactical flashlight (CR123) but doesn't have anywhere near the battery life of the Aimpoint. It does however have a faster reticle you just have to remember to turn it on.

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

What about accuracy with a red dot? The old aimpoints I played with years ago had large dots and weren't that accurate at 100 yards, let alone 300. :(

The rule of thumb is the smaller dot is more accurate, the bigger the dot is faster. But using the top of the dot for an aiming point for a surgical shot like Gut Shot said will produce some smaller groups. :cool:

[Grumpy]

What about those of us who don't have an extra $500-600 laying around to buy a red dot with?? :confused: Damn, that's what I paid for my carbine!! :eek:

Any other alternatives? :confused:

[GutShot John]

What about those of us who don't have an extra $500-600 laying around to buy a red dot with?? :confused: Damn, that's what I paid for my carbine!! :eek:

Any other alternatives? :confused:


Iron sights until you can save up for the RDS.

You really do get what you pay for and I wouldn't consider a "cheap red dot" on a fighting/defensive gun. You can also find used versions or older model eotechs/aimpoints on various boards. Similarly the more expensive models are NVG compatiable: I'd consider (though they use odd battery sizes) are the ML2 and ML3 for the best bargain for a quality RDS.

PS. I'd consider upgrading from a $500 carbine too. The best existing deal on quality carbines is probably Bravo Company USA.

[Grumpy]

I paid $500 retail for my Colt Carbine back in the day (most of you guys were in diapers I bet! ). ;)

I can't see the damn sights anymore. :( I bought a flat top upper and I'm in the market for a scope/optic. It's a home defense gun, period. Don't need all that fancy stuff, just something simple and cheap...that works! :cool:

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

http://www.tasco.com/product-images/Riflescopes/bkrd42_thumb.jpg

This is a TASCO "RED DOT". They used to call it a "PRO POINT" years ago. I ran this style RDS on my customers Open Pistols in MAJOR caliber for years. :cool: We also ran it on magnum shotguns as well. :eek:

If it is the same model as the old Pro Point (now called a TASCO Red Dot) I'd buy one, or two or six. :D

On a whimpy .223 it should last you for for years. It's 42 MM dia. and bolts right onto and the AR-15 flat top at the right height. You can get TWO of them for a little over $100 bucks online. :cool:

Oh, and it's 5 MOA dot will work good for old farts, especially inside 100 yds. ;)

[D.R. Middlebrooks]

Hey Arney, I changed your user name to "Grumpy" as per your request... :cool:

[Rick Simes]

I was an Eotech guy for years. But, after seening too many fail (including my own) I've switched to the Aimpoint Micro as my go to sight. I can leave the sight on for at least 5 years and not worry about it. While I like the Eotech reticle, the sight is big and heavy, and the battery box/contacts are a real weak point. Battery life is rather short as well. The newer XPS model does seem to have addressed some of the issues however. I do like that is uses the same battery as my light. If you look around a while on E-bay or various forums you can usually pick up a sight for a good price, especially the older Aimpoints. I got my Micro on Ebay for around 200.00 below retail. Just remember, when it comes to optics- buy once, cry once!

[GutShot John]

The T-1 or H-1 micros really are awesome optics. I have an M4s which I do love but it's way more than I need. I primarily bought it because it took a standard AA battery and still had almost a decade life span.

The nice thing about the 2moa dots is that you can turn up the intensity to make the dot much bigger.

[SLIDE LOCK]

Decade of battery life? :confused: That's B.S....

They say Tritium will last a decade, too...but it don't. :(

The ONLY dot sizes I see listed for the Aimpoint are 4 MOA. :confused:

[GutShot John]

Decade of battery life? :confused: That's B.S....


They say Tritium will last a decade, too...but it don't. :(

The ONLY dot sizes I see listed for the Aimpoint are 4 MOA. :confused:

I'd recheck but it depends on the optic. The M3 has both sizes. The M4 is onle available in 2moa.

It's rated at 10 years on lowest setting. Higher settings somewhat less but it's still the better part of a decade. If you don't believe me. Oh well but most owners simply leave theirs on. Even if it goes out so what? A two dollar battery and you're back in business for another few years. What more do you want?

[SLIDE LOCK]

It's not that I don't believe you, John, I just don't believe the claim. :rolleyes: How do they know? Have they tested it for 10 years? I think not. They said the same thing about Tritium night sights which we all know is B.S. (but hey, if it lasts 5 years I'd be happy. :cool:)...

[GutShot John]

Oh I've also heard great reviews about the Aimpoint C3. They are the bargain models of their military sights. Not as waterproof, no NVD capability but it should still be an excellent defense optic for most users and has the same battery life as the M3/ML3.

[E. Spears]

Got this from John Farnham:

28 Apr 10

EOTech battery issues, from a friend and retailer:

"I sell a lot of EOTechs. Many are now being returned, with customers
complaining that the unit will no longer turn on.

The cause is nearly always the same:

Factory-supplied AA batteries are leaking in the battery compartment and
subsequently corroding the contacts. AA batteries supplied by EOTech are
Energizer "Industrial." Such heavy-duty batteries are known to leak just
prior to going completely dead. It is a common occurrence when the EOTech
is put into storage with batteries in a low state of charge.

Since first seeing this problem, I have been recommending to all purchasers
that they immediately discard factory-supplied AA batteries and install
alkaline batteries instead (which do not leak).

In any event, keep fresh batteries in your EOTech, and it will be running
when you need it!"

Comment: Batteries surely represent a maintenance headache, but much of our
civilization is now dependant on them. Battery technology will surely
improve, but, in the interim, replace them often and check/test your serious
gear regularly!

/John

[GutShot John]

While I think the RDS models represent the best optic for most people. I realize it may not be the best for all.

With any firearms choice, it's usually best to define your "mission" or how you are actually going to/intend to employ your weapon.

If you are intending it for an indoor self-defensive purpose or relatively short-range engagements the RDS will rule the roost.

If however you live in the middle of BFE and you might have to engage beyond 200-300 yards (with the right ammo and practice you can indeed take an AR out to 800 yards) you might want to consider a magnified optic.

Trijicon IMO makes some of the best magnified optics out there for a reasonable amount of money. (note decent magnified optics cost money). Two to consider are: the TA-33H calibrated in 5.56 62 gr if you're going to use M193 or M855 or calibrated in .308 if you're intending on shooting 77 gr. like Mk262; the TR-21 or TR-24 has awesome glass and some nice advantages (almost true 1x-4x) if you're going from 0-200+ yards though the post reticle isn't the best as it covers a lot making holdovers difficult.

In dynamic situations the BAC does work quite well but you have to practice to get it right.

Also note that in bright sunlight you're going to have to cover the fiber optic to prevent washout. In low-light/night however the Trijicons come into their own once your eyes adjust.

[Fast Eddy]

How important is a "fog proof" optic and is it really necessary to have a water proof one? :confused:

Also, how about a quick disconnect scope mount with a guaranteed "return to zero" with a throw lever?? Is it worth the bucks and which is the best?

Also, how about alluminum scope mounts/rings compared to steel? Is there any difference worth noting?

[GutShot John]

How important is a "fog proof" optic and is it really necessary to have a water proof one? :confused:

Also, how about a quick disconnect scope mount with a guaranteed "return to zero" with a throw lever?? Is it worth the bucks and which is the best?

Also, how about alluminum scope mounts/rings compared to steel? Is there any difference worth noting?

1. Fog "proof" is desirable but it should be noted that sometimes fog happens. Water "proof" is somewhat desirable but if you're not a Navy SeAL or into amphibious ops it isn't your first problem. Most optics are somewhat water resistant down to a certain depth (15' for the civilian aimpoints) and that should be more than enough for your average user.

2. I'd say a rtz mount is very important and worth the bucks. I'd say Larue Tactical is your best bet for a throw-lever rtz mount. They are practically bombproof. Bobro and American Defense are also respectable. I'd avoid ARMS.

3. There are good aluminum mounts/rings but you'll spend the same/more as a steel one. They are much lighter.